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Damn, I also had something started up...

@JørnWildt: pitty I have the feeling you quit on some point but I know longer then today your point of view... so... I respect that... I'm not complaining!

On topic: I think it's obvious where it's going....

- Igor


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Have a nice day

PostNuke.be is currently running
PN 0.8.0.0-RC3

I have a lot of respect (and a bit of envy) for those people that can dedicate the time to produce PostNuke and its 3rd party modules. That being said, I don't think it's enough.

Having a thriving 3rd party development community is going to require a way to get the coders and customers together. Another huge part of that puzzle is documentation. Creating a rent a coder site should include easy access to everything a developer is going to need to move to PostNuke.

Another possible feature of a rent a coder site could be themes for sale. Include access to all of the information and examples required to create quality themes.

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- Darryl -

dks

I have a lot of respect (and a bit of envy) for those people that can dedicate the time to produce PostNuke and its 3rd party modules.

All I can add... you should

dks

That being said, I don't think it's enough.

It never is... that's not new.

dks

Having a thriving 3rd party development community is going to require a way to get the coders and customers together.

AFAIK, so far someone needed a module, created it, shared it, and then 'customers' [I'd prefer users] are able to download it, use it to fit their needs. I'm afraid it's not the other way around [in most cases, I want to add].

dks

Another huge part of that puzzle is documentation.

Very true, what I've heard, work should be done in that area.

dks

Creating a rent a coder site should include easy access to everything a developer is going to need to move to PostNuke.

Not sure what you mean here... I was under the impression a rent-a-coder site, is for somebody to rent someone who knows how to code with the PN-API etc... Since the 0.8.x release is not official yet, it seems it's too soon to get into that.

dks

Another possible feature of a rent a coder site could be themes for sale. Include access to all of the information and examples required to create quality themes.

IMHO themes and coding are two different ways. On the other hand, somehow you're right but XT-themes of the third generation needs some adjustment. Mark West has a site with examples, I can't find it back right away now.

My ideas so far... and I'm not claiming I'm right... if anyone has the urge to add/correct/etc... feel free and most of all, don't hesitate!

- Igor

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Have a nice day

PostNuke.be is currently running
PN 0.8.0.0-RC3

videokid

dks

Another possible feature of a rent a coder site could be themes for sale. Include access to all of the information and examples required to create quality themes.

IMHO themes and coding are two different ways. On the other hand, somehow you're right but XT-themes of the third generation needs some adjustment. Mark West has a site with examples, I can't find it back right away now.

http://pnlab.markwest.me.uk/Gallery

There are also themes free and commercial: http://community.postnuke...atabase-main-tid-4.htm

I agree with Igor. In a way themes are code based but idea is different than module creation. The skill is in presentation, not really application. (And yes, the templates can have built in application).

There are plenty of people who are willing to do paid work... but full featured applications are time consuming to produce, and most are unwilling to pay for that kind of development time...

For themes, I charge 50 dollars US and up for conversion of existing templates to PostNuke templates... and for a custom theme... well that depends.. really..



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-- David Pahl -- (PostNuke Support Team)

<div id="me" class="none" style="none" />

My point wasn't to say that module development and theme development were the same thing but both are important to increase the adoption of PostNuke.

In a nutshell: I and others need the occasional bit of coding done and there doesn't seem to be the developers available. I think that in order to attract new developers we need proper documentation and some sort of monetary reward system like a "Hire a Coder" database.

Quote

http://pnlab.markwest.me.uk/Gallery

This is nice but it's hidden and no way to actually purchase the templates.

As well, a pet peeve of mine is the absence of links to 3rd party modules and themes on the PostNuke main page.

Back to the title of this thread

Imagine that you're not an interweb whiz but you've been tasked with setting up a web site for your company or organization.

Typically you are going to need:
- Hosting
- Content management system
- Modules
- theme
- Possibly a CMS consultant

I think the PostNuke web site should have this laid out on the main page.

Beyond that, there should be a simple path for finding the people for customization of existing modules and the developement of new ones.

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- Darryl -

I think, this not nescessarily a task of the core team. If you want to set up a site where pros and customers can come together, feel free to set one up. postnukepro.com doesn't really have a maintainer because we are all busy with other things and AFAIK most requests there went nowhere because many "customers" think they can buy a custom module for 200$.

It would be really cool if you turn your ideas into reality and feel responsible for the aquisition of new PHP programmers for professional PostNuke development. We need people like that (people who get programmers onto the PostNuke train).

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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität

Personally I think there is a big misunderstanding. People usually contribute code to an open source project because:

1) They need this very code themselves (for work or private purpose), create it and share it.
2) They enjoy solving intellectual (coding) problems, no matter if it's usefull or payed.

Understanding the above you will recognize that you can not simply buy workforce from inside an open source project. Actually that's one of the biggest strenghts of open source - you cannot buy it.

Having said that, many people over here are willing to accept commercial coding/support/documentation/training contracts - including me. But even if the contact for such business started here, it has nothing to do with the project itself. From my experience with other projects I can tell that this split is a good one.

Looking at my personal experience over the years with PostNuke I support what Steffen already pointed out - professional coding comes with a dedicated price tag, and many people requesting payed help really underestimate the dimensions here. This is not a rant, however - I have many PostNuke clients where they & me are happy.

Merry Christmas, folks!

Greetings,
Chris

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development is life. w3you.com
an operating system must operate. sidux.com

For example:




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-- David Pahl -- (PostNuke Support Team)

<div id="me" class="none" style="none" />

Although some say otherwise, I'm getting the general feeling that most of you speaking up are against the idea of having small tasks done for a fee. Is it that you think it's beneath you or that I'm just not reading it correctly.

AmmoDump

For example:

What are you trying to say? We all know that PostNuke is a large project that would have cost a lot of dough if it was done on a contract basis. Move on.

kaffeeringe.de

I think, this not nescessarily a task of the core team. If you want to set up a site where pros and customers can come together, feel free to set one up. postnukepro.com doesn't really have a maintainer because we are all busy with other things

Did I say that this was a job for the core team? Again with the "we're too busy". Everyone knows that the core developers are too busy which is why I've said a couple times that attracting more developers would be a big shot in the arm.......fnord-documentation-fnord.

kaffeeringe.de

AFAIK most requests there went nowhere because many "customers" think they can buy a custom module for 200$.

Catch-22. When the person with the money comes along, all they'll find is a bunch of angry programmers and no way to communicate with them and move on to Mamboobla or some other african word.

kaffeeringe.de

It would be really cool if you turn your ideas into reality and feel responsible for the aquisition of new PHP programmers for professional PostNuke development. We need people like that (people who get programmers onto the PostNuke train).

I've been think about setting up a community web site with a focus on setting up community web sites for quite some time. Last night I registered a name and started on it but it would be nice if at least one person would step up and say that they're not too busy for an occasional evening or weekend project.

slam

Personally I think there is a big misunderstanding. People usually contribute code to an open source project because:

1) They need this very code themselves (for work or private purpose), create it and share it.
2) They enjoy solving intellectual (coding) problems, no matter if it's usefull or payed.

Understanding the above you will recognize that you can not simply buy workforce from inside an open source project. Actually that's one of the biggest strenghts of open source - you cannot buy it.

Personally, I would like to have everyone do everything for me for free, shortly before I would like it done. In reality, I come across things where my life would be made easier if "that one little thing" would work differently and would like it it to work that way.

I could:
1) Ask someone for help. (been there done that, everyone is too busy)
2) Program the changes myself. (not a good programmer, would LOVE to increase my skill level but *I* am too busy)
3) Attempt to hire someone (been there done that, everyone is too busy)
4) Move to Mamboombla (no Pagesetter)
5) Post a message in the PostNuke forums...

slam

Having said that, many people over here are willing to accept commercial coding/support/documentation/training contracts - including me. But even if the contact for such business started here, it has nothing to do with the project itself. From my experience with other projects I can tell that this split is a good one.

Split?


Please focus people....I would like to see a group of people that would like to take on SMALL tasks for the betterment of the community. A little plug-in here or there that would solve a problem for many people. Example: The recently released pnForum (2.7.1) is fantastic but could be made even better with a couple of plug-ins that will never exist.

To be honest, most tasks that I've come across can be managed by Pagesetter and many of the existing modules are made redundant by Pagesetter. In my personal experience, I've never required a custom module that would take 7 coders years and cost .1M but constantly see little details that if changed would help us all.

PostNuke should also set up some Paypal subscription options. Easy , , per month or something like that. Many people see a month more do-able and cheaper than . I do not mean that people that donate/subscribe will get or expect to get anything other than what they're getting now. Rather, just a different and easier to handle way to donate.

I'm going to finish with a smiley because I might be coming off like an ass or angry. I am neither.

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- Darryl -

I will start with a ...

I am sure you understand the cost (time) to create and test software. Yes, PostNuke has a lot of overhead to creation. Sure. But following the link... you can see that the cost of creating modules is expensive in the amount of hours. It is not necessarily that project have to be coded 100% from scratch.. so the estimates are high, of course.

I tend to agree Jorn, Simon, Steffen and Chris who all are developers. While this sort of Software (OS-CMSs)can support commercial endeavors, it should be duly noted that most of the community is build of the DIY webmasters and administrators. They are not sort with deep pockets. Mainly we are a group with limited financial resources doing work which is hobby, enthusiast, or light to medium commercial application.

That being said, this project is moving to a more developer friendly API system with the .8 series of code. Also it should noted that Axel (Guite) is actively working on his ModuleStudio which should vastly reduce compliant code development time to real custom module creation.

There are many community members who do what they can. I think with the realization of .8 we should see more developers adopting the system.

Indeed we hear what you are saying... but it has been said before and never really changes. It is how it is. Maybe you new site will help change that into a reality. Let us know when you are ready to go live. I would like to check it out. Others may want to help.

Happy Holidays!



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-- David Pahl -- (PostNuke Support Team)

<div id="me" class="none" style="none" />

Well, I still think that the solution to your problem i s postnukepro.com

The last year at least it has been out of order, I was never able to sign up as an consultant/programmer and was therefore never able to accept any form of request. Many others might have been in the same situation.
But you need nothing more than a place to contact an experienced PHP-programmer with knowledge of PostNuke. People for hire - and I'll bet that there would be quite a few - and you could ask for help with the project.

Wether the result of the coding should be given up as free-of-charge afterwards, that's a completely different story. Maybe your solution would be a hack of a standard module, maybe you need a completely new module. It may be relevant for other people or it may be too specialised for anybody else to use.
For instance, I've done a small module myself, but as it was on limited pay, I had no intention of bothering with a multilanguage solution. And a specialised module i danish isn't very popular...


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Cars are afraid of trains...

Userfriendly design based on open source CMS PostNuke at http://www.eid.dk

1. We don't think your suggestions are "beneath us"
2. I didn't talk to the rest of the Steering Committee, but I am sure we support your initiative. I can't promise any work on you site, but I will support it in pointing people to it who offer or seek professional PostNuke services.
3. "postnukepro.com" needs a new name as soon as PostNuke has its new name and it needs someone who really adopts the site. And if not that site at least the idea. As far as I understand you, your are already working on a solution. Maybe we should make this the official successor of postnukepro.com
4. If it becomes the successor we have to automatically support you as we need a representative site. We can give feedback and support you in setting up a good layout.

BUT: It would be your job to run the site and keep it running and it would be your job to build up a team around it.

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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität

kaffeeringe.de

3. "postnukepro.com" needs a new name as soon as PostNuke has its new name and it needs someone who really adopts the site. And if not that site at least the idea. As far as I understand you, your are already working on a solution. Maybe we should make this the official successor of postnukepro.com

New name?

Oh, and postnukepro.com doesn't work at at all in Internet Explorer. I tested on two machines, but running 7



edited by: dks, Dec 27, 2007 - 05:14 PM

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- Darryl -

Simon (hammerhead) is working on a replacement for postnukepro.com contact him, if you are interested.

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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität

Here are my concerns over PostNuke, coming from someone who has used it for 5+ years.

Development is too slow. .8 has been "on the horizon" for 2 years now with no sign of release any time soon. In the mean time entirely new products have sprung up, gone through beta and release several times and are now knocking on the door of what PostNuke offers.

3rd party development is virtually non existant. I've posted many requests over the years here, on postnukepro and on elance and finding someone to code has been impossible. I'm willing to pay, and far more than $200 and have yet been able to find anyone experienced in PostNuke to do the work.

Administration is a bear compared to competing products.

Significant changes with releases cause remediation nightmares. With every release I've installed I've had to spend hours updating themes, code or modules to try and get things to work again. As it is now I'm probably a year behind because I'm afraid to install any updates as I don't have the hours required to try and get the site working again after an update.

Templating is unknown outside of the PostNuke world. As with finding developers finding anyone who can template a PostNuke site is impossible. I just had a elance request close this week for a PostNuke theme without a single response to it. Here is another attempt: http://community.postnuke...ic-52704.htm#pid226189



Just today I got a proposal from a company to port my site from PostNuke to a competing product. I'm sure .8 will be great, but I can no longer wait for it to arrive. I'll likely end up paying $$$$ to port my site to another product but at least I'll have a chance of finding people who can help me with new module development.

Sean





edited by: mbuna, Jan 09, 2008 - 01:38 AM

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