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Interesting comment - You know I have noticed this issue about Nuke CMSes in general. I was fortunate enough to find a PHP-Nuke developer that did a heavy mod to my PHP-Nuke site over about a 6 month period. It is a true hack, but a pretty good one. But theres that darn template issue.

In retrospect, I wish I had gone with something more "Theme-able". Nuke projects have the ugliest templates on the planet as far as I am concerned. And whats more, its no easy undertaking to create one for Nuke or any fork for that matter. PostNuke is nicer in general, but this theme-ing issue is awful. There are very few quality templates commercially available as well.

I tried Websitebaker and Content Management System made simple (CMSMS) and at least was able to put up some progressive looking sites that don't look like WoW Sites - man these gaming themes in the Nuke world really got the control don't they? Seems there are no elegant developers willing to tackle the issue either. (Themesforge is ok - but they could use some more development)

With WB my first project and I was able to port over a theme in about a half a day, and now I can port one over in maybe an hour as long as its not real complex. The others I need longer, but thats cuz my CSS skills aren't that great.

Now if you take a look at (dare I say it?) Joomla, they really are tending toward a much more commercialized ad-on market. They have some super templates now, which didn't use to be the case, but you can really snaz up a site with some of their offerings. IN my opinion, all OSCMS development models ought to be more like Joomla.

Well, thats my comment - But I need to add something. I would never have used nuke except for one module they have available. Everyone else wanted to charge single license user fees for a similar module, and I will be using this module several times. That made PN a good choice. I have to confess - I think I kind of like PN right now - after all, its doing what I need. No, it isn't everything, but its going to get me entrenched in the Search engines, (Now thats one thing I am really good at, and thats SEO) and thus I will be using a couple of PN sites for the next couple of years - maybe longer.

My only complaint today is themes! Please Somebody, make some nice themes!

LexScripta





edited by: lexscripta, Jan 11, 2008 - 12:58 AM

Themes are easy with PN. I really don't see how it could get any easier. Xanthia makes themes a breeze to compile. AutoTheme, as well. They both have a low learning curve, and offer great flexibility.

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-- David Pahl -- (PostNuke Support Team)

<div id="me" class="none" style="none" />

"You can just make a plugin to accommodate that"

"Check out the link below" Some cryptic link that only a coder can understand.

"You can easily build a module for that"

Above are just my interpretations to most of the answers I see around here.

What drives Joomlas success is the easy of use and options available to enhance the core CMS. You do NOT have to be a programmer to make Joomla work for you in most instances. There are thousands of themes and hundreds of modules and components that work without having to ever look at a line of code.

I have used PostNuke for a few years now and have ventured out into other content management systems only to return to PostNuke for its dependability and robustness. However in order for PostNuke to compete it will need to cater more to the non programmer crowd. In short modules, plugins and themes need to work without having to modify the original code.

I believe I saw mention of a certification process being recommended in these forums. I personally think this is a GREAT idea. Since I am not a programmer, I would be willing to beta test anything any programmer has to offer. It is the least I could do for all the hard work put in by the Postnukes core and 3rd party developers.

Please remember that we are not all programmers here. Referring users to a link that only makes sense to a programmer is of no value. Answering a post by saying that they can just build a quick solution via a module or plugin falls on deaf ears unless you are a programmer. If the intent of PostNuke is to build an application framework by programmers for programmers than by all means don't change a thing. But if you care to expand your product past the programmer market then you may want to hear what the community is trying to say.

In these forums you will find help, suggestions and complaints. However I believe that each post has a common goal which is "making PostNuke the best CMS it can be"

So with that said? "Where is PostNuke heading today?"


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Sean Boal

http://whiskey-town.com | http://matkings.com | http://www.rc-hr.com | http://boalelectric.com

I agree... and not...

Yes. PN has a learning curve. It is give-and-take. PN is very open-ended. The price is: that it is not always 2 clicks away-but it is doable...

Sure, I wish that PN could do it all.. with a click or two.. who would not? It is not the beginner CMS... if one wants specific-point-and-click solutions. But on the other hand it is not stuck. It is not just a blog.

Where is PN headed today? Anywhere...



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-- David Pahl -- (PostNuke Support Team)

<div id="me" class="none" style="none" />

Quote

Whiskey-town: Since I am not a programmer, I would be willing to beta test anything any programmer has to offer. It is the least I could do for all the hard work put in by the Postnukes core and 3rd party developers.

I would love to get some feedback on the new Content module See http://community.postnuke...viewtopic&topic=53813&

Thanks, Jørn

mbuna

kaffeeringe.de

And tell us how you would like to help us.

You tell me how I can help and I will. I've offered in the past but there wasn't much I could do to help since I'm not a PHP developer.

There are so many other things you can do - did you read the Call for Volunteers on the frontpage? Is there any kind of job you are interested in?

IMHO you should look for a PHP developer in your town and ask him to learn how to write PostNuke module. When you found someone who is willing to learn this, you can drop me line telling me his e-mail and I will point him to any ressource he needs to get into the topic.


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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität

@whiskey-town: There is simply no way we can offer a formal certification! We would have to recheck everything with every update of the module and the core. And for what should we check the modules? Security? Functionality? We can't go deeply into the code.

I think it is a great offer of yours to test everything. You really should do that. Every time there's a new module version in the module database you should test it and post your finding in the trackers or discuss them in the forum.

The major disappointment of module developers - at least AFAIK - is too little feedback. They release a module and people only tell them bugs - nobody says what they like, hardly anybody makes qualified suggestions on how to improve the module. Module developers love feedback of any kind. Because that is what makes them feel recognized. I can't believe that so many users try a module and then lean back in their office chair and think to themselves "okay for a start but I think that developers should fix this and that bug and make this and that easier". Once in a while I read things like this on the forum. And it makes me wanna slap them.

You are not a coder, you are not a themer, you can't give support in the forum, you don't want to write anything for the news or in the Wiki - but the least thing everybody can do, is report bugs and give qualified feedback. (this is a general rant, not aimed at you whiskey-town )

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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität

JørnWildt

[I would love to get some feedback on the new Content module See http://community.postnuke...viewtopic&topic=53813&

Thanks, Jørn

I have already loaded and begun testing of this module. I had already planned on providing feedback once I get a chance to really take this around the block.

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Sean Boal

http://whiskey-town.com | http://matkings.com | http://www.rc-hr.com | http://boalelectric.com

kaffeeringe.de

[There are so many other things you can do - did you read the Call for Volunteers on the frontpage? Is there any kind of job you are interested in?

Yes I read the call for volunteers on the front page. My first thought after reading it was darn, there does not seem to be any area that I could assist except for marketing due to my lack of PHP knowledge.

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Sean Boal

http://whiskey-town.com | http://matkings.com | http://www.rc-hr.com | http://boalelectric.com

kaffeeringe.de

I can't believe that so many users try a module and then lean back in their office chair and think to themselves "okay for a start but I think that developers should fix this and that bug and make this and that easier". Once in a while I read things like this on the forum. And it makes me wanna slap them.

Maybe I am confused here. Is this not the feedback from the community your looking for?



And for the record slapping them would be considered workplace violence, so this is probably not the best approach in promoting dialogue.

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Sean Boal

http://whiskey-town.com | http://matkings.com | http://www.rc-hr.com | http://boalelectric.com

I understand that it would not be practical to physically certify each module or plugin created. Please excuse my ignorance if a provision for this already is already in place. But what about a utility that developers could run their module against to test for API compliance. I have to assume that there are certain code rules that they need to adhere to in order to guarantee compatibility and functionality between each version.

Please note that I want to see PostNuke evolve and take over more of the market share of open source content management. My thoughts posted here are not trying to bash the CMS, but an effort to try and stimulate some dialogue on what I see are the pitfalls from a laymen perspective.


And I absolutely loved this response.

"Where is PN headed today? Anywhere..."


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Sean Boal

http://whiskey-town.com | http://matkings.com | http://www.rc-hr.com | http://boalelectric.com

A lengthy general discussion about the overall direction of PostNuke doesn't help anybody. Because there is no way of changing the direction. PostNuke is a community project and everybody who is onboard has his/her own reasons. We can't make everybody change that.

The feedback I am talking about is concrete feedback on special features. If you need PostNuke for a special purpose, keep an eye on the modules that might be the best basis for that. Test these modules, and figure out what they lack or how they could be imporved. Contact the developer via feature request tracker, forum or PM and make your suggestions as detailed as possible.

I have seen this kind of feedback: There is somebody who has a very special way of using a module in mind and he makes several features requests that aim at this way of using it. If they are easy to understand and in the general direction of what the developer has in mind, he will implement that.

But when you read what "LexScripta" e.g. says (no offense): "Nukes are ugly to theme" - what can any developer do about that? There is absolutly no information in that. The user doesn't tell what his problems are and of course he doesn't say how it could be made easier. No developer in the world will know what to do in reaction to that and thus not react at all.

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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität

whiskey-town

Please note that I want to see PostNuke evolve and take over more of the market share of open source content management. My thoughts posted here are not trying to bash the CMS, but an effort to try and stimulate some dialogue on what I see are the pitfalls from a laymen perspective.

This is an excellent point.
Much of the information that a layman would require to go beyond the basics is hard to find, incomplete, or written at a level of a developer.

I firmly believe that software should never be released without proper documentation. The best candidate for writing the documentation is the developer(s). If the developer(s) need help with readability, then a request for a documentation tester could be posted in the forums, giving those without PHP experience the ability to help out.

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- Darryl -

whiskey-town

And I absolutely loved this response.

"Where is PN headed today? Anywhere..."

Yeah, that guy is pretty smart.

You don't need to know PHP to help out. I can kinda follow the code around. And the only module I have ever made successfully is a "Hello world!" for .8. It worked, though!

Really, I cannot program in PHP. I can theme well enough, but that is because Xanthia allows me to do this in HTML/CSS. I just add my Smarty tags, and it works.

What I do to help, is read the forums and news. I use the software, I research my questions. I post my questions. I post tips and tricks, I think others may find useful. I have built relationships with Devs and key community members. I discuss PN with them. I try to be creative. I share my knowledge. When I find questions in forums, I know someone I know may know the answer, I message them for it. I post my bugs. I help my non-native-English-speaking friends with English and grammar.

Sure, I am a support team member, but it is not for my PHP Development Skillz (with a Z).




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-- David Pahl -- (PostNuke Support Team)

<div id="me" class="none" style="none" />

There's already a team working on documentation. Contact Hammerhead, Mateo, Videokid or Ammodump via PM, if you want to help them.

I am sure you can write some documentation about the installation, basic settings, block configuration, description of the core blocks, installation of modules / themes ASO.

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best regards from Kiel, sailing city

Steffen Voß

Member of the PostNuke Steering Committee
Visit: Kaffeeringe.de - Internet & Kreativität